Israel’s Conflict as Game Theory

From Israeldefender;

Rick’s face turns red with anger. He is about to punch Steve in the nose, but he steps back. He realizes that Steve is not going to relent, and that the only way he can leave the room with any money is to give in to him. He straightens his clothes, takes $10,000 from the suitcase, shakes Steve’s hand and leaves the room humiliated.

This case is called ‘The Blackmailer’s Paradox” in game theory. The paradox is that Rick the rational is forced to behave irrationally by definition, in order to achieve maximum results in the face of the situation that has evolved. What brings about this bizarre outcome is the fact Steve is sure of himself and doesn’t flinch when making his exorbitant demand. This convinces Rick that he must give in so as to make the best of the situation.

The Arab-Israeli Conflict

The relationship between Israel and the Arab countries is conducted along the lines of this paradox. At each stage of negotiation, the Arabs present impossible, unacceptable starting positions. They act sure of themselves and as if they totally believe in what they are asking for, and make it clear to Israel that there is no chance of their backing down.

Invariably, Israel agrees to their blackmailing demands because otherwise she will leave the room empty handed. The most blatant example of this is the negotiations with Syria that have been taking place with different levels of negotiators for years. The Syrians made sure that it was clear from the beginning that they would not compromise on one millimeter of the Golan Heights.

The Israeli side, eager to have a peace agreement with Syria, internalized the Syrian position so well, that the Israeli public is sure that the starting point for future negotiations with Syria has to include complete withdrawal from the Golan Heights, this despite its critical strategic importance in ensuring secure borders for Israel.

The Losing Solution

According to game theory, Israel has to change certain basic perceptions in order to improve her chances in the negotiations game with the Arabs and win the long term political struggle:

a. Willingness to forego agreements

Israel’s political stand is based on the principle that agreements must be reached with the Arabs at any price, that the lack of agreements is untenable. In the Blackmailer’s Paradox, Rick’s behavior is the result of his feeling that he must leave the room with some money, no matter how little. Because Rick cannot imagine himself leaving the room with empty hands, he is easy prey for Steve, and ends up leaving with a certain amount of money, but in the role of the humiliated loser. This is similar to the way Israel handles negotiations, her mental state making her unable to reject suggestions that do not advance her interests.

b. Taking repetition into account

Game theory relates to onetime situations differently than to situations that repeat themselves. A situation that repeats itself over any length of time, creates, paradoxically, strategic parity that leads to cooperation between the opposing sides. This cooperation occurs when both sides realize that the game is going to repeat itself, and that since they must weigh the influence present moves will have on future games, there is a balancing factor at play.

Rick saw his problem as a onetime event, and behaved accordingly. Had he told Steve instead that he would not forego the amount he deserves even if he sustains a total loss, he would have changed the game results for an indefinite period. It is probably true that he would still have left the game empty handed, but at the next meeting with Steve, the latter would remember Rick’s original suggestion and would try to reach a compromise.

That is how Israel has to behave, looking at the long term in order to improve her position in future negotiations, even if it means continuing a state of war and fore going an agreement.

c. Faith in your opinions

Another element that crates the “Blackmailer’s Paradox” is the unwavering belief of one side in its opinion. Steve exemplifies that. This faith gives a contender inner confidence in his cause at the start and eventually convinces his rival as well. The result is that the opposing side wants to reach an agreement, even at the expense of irrational surrender that is considerably distanced from his opening position.

Several years ago, I spoke to a senior officer who claimed that Israel must withdraw from the Golan Heights in the framework of a peace treaty, because the Golan is holy land to the Syrians and they will never give it up. I explained to him that first the Syrians convinced themselves that the Golan is holy land to them, and then proceeded to convince you as well. The Syrians’ unflinching belief that they are in the right convinces us to give in to their dictates. The only solution to that is for us to believe unwaveringly in the righteousness of our cause. Only complete faith in our demands can succeed in convincing our Syrian opponent to take our opinion into account.

As in all of science, game theory does not take sides in moral and value judgments. It analyzes strategically the behavior of opposing sides in a game they play against one another. The State of Israel is in the midst of one such game opposite its enemies. As in every game, the Arab-Israeli game involves interests that create the framework of the game and its rules.

Sadly, Israel ignores the basic principles of game theory. If Israel would be wise enough to behave according to those principles, her political status and de facto, her security status, would improve substantially.

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Copyright Yisrael Aumann

Rupert Murdoch speaks the truth

The greatest living Australian, Rupert Murdoch (closely followed by John Howard, with an honourable mention to Bob Hawke who was instrumental in pressuring the Soviet Union to allow Jews to emigrate), once again shows why neo-Nazi’s claim he’s Jewish and lefties hate Fox News delivering a very up to date speech to the Anti-Defamation League.  It really is such a brave speech its worth reading in full. He really tells it like it is;

I can’t say I have been chosen by God.  But tonight I can say this:  I am honored to be chosen by His people for this award.

I am especially proud that this award bears the name of the ADL.  You were founded a century ago against the backdrop of something we cannot imagine in America today:  the conviction and then lynching of an innocent Jew.

In the century since then, you have fought anti-Semitism wherever you have found it.  You have championed equal treatment for all races and creeds.  And you have held America to her founding promise.

So successful have you been, a few years ago some people were beginning to say, “maybe we don’t need an ADL anymore.”

That is a much harder argument to make these days.

Now, there’s not a single person in this room who needs a lecture on the evil of anti-Semitism.  My own perspective is simple:  We live in a world where there is an ongoing war against the Jews

For the first decades after Israel’s founding, this war was conventional in nature.  The goal was straightforward:  to use military force to overrun Israel.  Well before the Berlin Wall came down, that approach had clearly failed.

Then came phase two: terrorism.

Terrorists targeted Israelis both home and abroad – from the massacre of Israeli athletes at Munich to the second intifada.

The terrorists continue to target Jews across the world.  But they have not succeeded in bringing down the Israeli government – and they have not weakened Israeli resolve.

Now the war has entered a new phase.  This is the soft war that seeks to isolate Israel by delegitimizing it. The battleground is everywhere:  the media … multinational organizations … NGOs.

In this war, the aim is to make Israel a pariah.

The result is the curious situation we have today:  Israel becomes increasingly ostracized, while Iran – a nation that has made no secret of wishing Israel’s destruction – pursues nuclear weapons loudly, proudly, and without apparent fear of rebuke.   

For me, this ongoing war is a fairly obvious fact of life.

Every day, the citizens of the Jewish homeland defend themselves against armies of terrorists whose maps spell out the goal they have in mind: a Middle East without Israel.

In Europe, Jewish populations increasingly find themselves targeted by people who share that goal.

And in the United States, I fear that our foreign policy sometimes emboldens these extremists.

Tonight I’d like to speak about two things that worry me most. 

First is the disturbing new home that anti-Semitism has found in polite society – especially in Europe.

Second is how violence and extremism are encouraged when the world sees Israel’s greatest ally distancing herself from the Jewish state.

When Americans think of anti-Semitism, we tend to think of the vulgar caricatures and attacks of the first part of the 20th century. 

Today it seems that the most virulent strains come from the left.   Often this new anti-Semitism dresses itself up as legitimate disagreement with Israel. 

Back in 2002 the president of Harvard, Larry Summers, put it this way:

“Where anti-Semitism and views that are profoundly anti-Israeli have traditionally been the primary preserve of poorly educated right-wing populists, profoundly anti-Israel views are increasingly finding support in progressive intellectual communities.  Serious and thoughtful people are advocating and taking actions that are anti-Semitic in their effect if not their intent.”

Mr. Summers was speaking mostly about our university campuses.  Like me, however, he was also struck by alarming developments in Europe. 

Far from being dismissed out of hand, anti-Semitism today enjoys support at both the highest and lowest reaches of European society – from its most elite politicians to its largely Muslim ghettoes.  European Jews find themselves caught in this pincer.

We saw a recent outbreak when a European Commissioner trade minister declared that peace in the Middle East is impossible because of the Jewish lobby in America.  Here’s how he put it:

“There is indeed a belief—it’s difficult to describe it otherwise—among most Jews that they are right. And it’s not so much whether these are religious Jews or not. Lay Jews also share the same belief that they are right. So it is not easy to have, even with moderate Jews, a rational discussion about what is actually happening in the Middle East.”

This minister did not suggest the problem was any specific Israeli policy.  The problem, as he defined it, is the nature of the Jews. 

Adding to the absurdity, this man then responded to his critics this way:  Anti-Semitism, he asserted, “has no place in today’s world and is fundamentally against our European values.”

Of course, he has kept his job.

Unfortunately, we see examples like this one all across Europe.

Sweden, for example, has long been a synonym for liberal tolerance.  Yet in one of Sweden’s largest cities, Jews report increasing examples of harassment. When an Israeli tennis team visited for a competition, it was greeted with riots. 

 

So how did the mayor respond?  By equating Zionism with anti-Semitism – and suggesting that Swedish Jews would be safer in his town if they distanced themselves from Israeli actions in Gaza.

You don’t have to look far for other danger signs:

·      The Norwegian government forbids a Norwegian-based, German shipbuilder from using its waters to test a submarine being built for the Israeli navy.

·      Britain and Spain are boycotting an OECD tourism meeting in Jerusalem.

·      In the Netherlands, police report a 50% increase in the number of anti-Semitic incidents.

Maybe we shouldn’t be surprised by these things.  According to one infamous European poll a few years back, Europeans listed Israel ahead of Iran and North Korea as the greatest threat to world peace.

In Europe today, some of the most egregious attacks on Jewish people, Jewish symbols, and Jewish houses of worship have come from the Muslim population.

Unfortunately, far from making clear that such behavior will not be tolerated, too often the official response is what we’ve seen from the Swedish mayor – who suggested Jews and Israel were partly to blame themselves.

When Europe’s political leaders do not stand up to the thugs, they lend credence to the idea that Israel is the source of all the world’s problems – and they guarantee more ugliness.

If that is not anti-Semitism, I don’t know what is. 

That brings me to my second point:  the importance of good relations between Israel and the United States.

Some believe that if America wants to gain credibility in the Muslim world and advance the cause of peace, Washington needs to put some distance between itself and Israel.

My view is the opposite.

Far from making peace more possible, we are making hostilities more certain.

Far from making things better for the Palestinian people, sour relations between the United States and Israel guarantees that ordinary Palestinians will continue to suffer.

The peace we all want will come when Israel feels secure – not when Washington feels distant.

Right now we have war.

There are many people waging this war. Some blow up cafes.  Some fire rockets into civilian areas. Some are pursuing nuclear arms.  Some are fighting the soft war, through international boycotts and resolutions condemning Israel.

All these people are watching the U.S.-Israeli relationship closely.

In this regard, I was pleased to hear the State Department’s spokesman clarify America’s position yesterday. He said that the United States recognizes “the special nature of the Israeli state. It is a state for the Jewish people.”

This is an important message to send to the Middle East.  When people see, for example, a Jewish prime minister treated badly by an American president, they see a more isolated Jewish state.  That only encourages those who favor the gun over those who favor negotiation.

Ladies and gentlemen, back in 1937, a man named Vladimir Jabotinsky urged Britain to open up an escape route for Jews fleeing Europe.

Only a Jewish homeland, he said, could protect European Jews from the coming calamity.

In prophetic words, he described the problem this way:

“It is not the anti-Semitism of men,” he said.  “It is, above all, the anti-Semitism of things, the inherent xenophobia of the body social or the body economic under which we suffer.”

The world of 2010 is not the world of the 1930s.  The threats Jews face today are different. 

But these threats are real.

These threats are soaked in an ugly language familiar to anyone old enough to remember World War II.

And these threats cannot be addressed until we see them for what they are: part of an ongoing war against the Jews.

Thank you for listening.  Thank you for this award.  And thank you for all you do. 

Friend’s of Israel in the international community

I decided to use a travel map program to visually display Israel’s allies (who according to the map constiture 14% of the world). I must say I was very very strict in picking Israel’s allies leaving off countries like the UK and France mainly because of their terribly anti-Israeli media and the UK’s attempted arrest of Livni and others recently. In Europe I think most countries are quite neutral when it comes to Israel, Germany, Italy, Romania, Czech and Denmark are generally Israel’s best friends with Spain, Finland and Norway openly hostile to Israel. Greece seems to have recently swapped to the pro-Israel camp because of Israel’s falling out with Turkey but I left both countries off the map. Elsewhere in Asia Israel’s friends include Japan, some of the central Asian countries, Thailand, and of course India being Israel’s most powerful ally after the USA. I left Mexico off not because its hostile just because its not overtly pro-Israel. In Latin America the only country that is really an ally is Colombia. Australia and some of the pacific states are very pro-Israel but New Zealand is not a friend of Israel (or the USA). Africa really is only Kenya and Ethiopia with South Africa being amongst the least friendly counntries towards Israel. It goes with out saying that the Arab countries are almost universally anti-Israel but it should be mentioned that the Berbers (maybe 20 Million occupied by the Arabs) and the Kurds (25 million occupied by Arabs, Turks and Iran) are pro-Israel.

 

Let me know your thoughts. Should I include another country? Have I been unfair?

 

UPDATE I realise I’ve left off Serbia and the Philliphines, two of Israels allies. Also I didn’t mention Georgia which deserves special praise.

 

Leftist New Zealand organisation allied to Syrian Nazi’s?

Harry’s place (a site that censored one of my, admittedly more controversial, comments today incidently) points out that Ki Ora Gaza, a New Zealand group thats part of the Viva Palestina Hamas (also a Nazi party by the way; I’ts Muslim Brotherhood) has posted photos of the Syrian Nazi party on its website really priceless stuff. I made a comment on their website (lets see how long they keep it up for?);

«Besides the obvious irony that you are descendants of European colonists of the Maori’s country do you realise (as pointed out in Harry’s Place) that the first photo includes the flag of the Syrian Nazi party a party thats main objective, besides hatred of Jews, is to take over Israel, Palestine and Lebanon into a “greater Syria” (I thought you were against “occupation”?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Social_Nationalist_Party

Being National Socialists they also hate Jews, not just Israeli’s;

“The Syrian Social Nationilsts claim that the term Nazism or National Socialism is different than social nationalism. They have been inclusive and did not display sectarian or ethnic tendencies in Lebanon. However they are strongly against all Jews and very nationalistic against others including Arabs. Yet there are many close similarities in action from their stiff arm salute to the brown shirts to flag similairty with the swastika»

“The SSNP members fight Israel because they hate jews , all jews, not only the zionists. ”

http://www.leb-undernet.org/showthread.php?t=25537

Nice company you keep.»


Steve Bronfman

 

By the way, since, «The term Nazi derives from the first two syllables of Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (National Socialist German Workers’ Party, NSDAP)» I guess they should really be described as «Nasy’s»  Nationalsocialist Syria? Anyway, a Nazi is a Nazi is a Nazi.

This again highlights the link between the extreme left and extreme right an alliance that began with the children of Nazi’s, such as Red Army Faction founders Horst Mahler and Ulrike Meinhof both of whom crossed into open anti-semitism with Meinhof saying;

«Auschwitz means that six million Jews were murdered and carted on to the rubbish dumps of Europe for being that which was maintained of them — Money-Jews.»

Mahler is now a prominant neo-Nazi and currently in prison for Holocaust denial saying;

«The destruction of Jews is an act of reason… Billions of people would be ready to forgive Hitler if only he had committed the murder of the Jews» («In der Vernichtung der Juden waltet Vernunft…Milliarden Menschen wären bereit, Hitler zu verzeihen, wenn er nur den Judenmord begangen hätte»)

in Germany in 1969 when,

«On November 9, 1969, on the anniversary of «Kristallnacht«, over two hundred people were gathered in Berlin’s Jewish Community Centre in commemoration of the victims of Nazi Germany. Unbeknownst to them, a member of the radical Left student movement «Tupamaros West Berlin» planted a bomb in the building. The device failed to explode because the clock meant to trigger it off was connected by a rusty wire. The Tupamaros saw themselves as Germany’s first urban guerillas, inspired by the Latin American role model. The brains behind the plot was Dieter Kunzelmann, a leftist radical political clown, founder of the «Kommune 1» and self-proclaimed «kingpin of Chaos». In the wake of the six-day war of 1967, Kunzelmann saw Israel as an imperial state and oppressor of the Palestinians, which must be resisted with force. His opponents inside the Left, who maintained a more nuanced view of the situation in the Middle East, accused him of having a «Jew complex».

This summer, Wolfgang Kraushaar published «Die Bombe im Jüdischen Gemeindehaus» (the bomb in the Jewish Community Centre). The book reveals previously unknown information on the 1969 plot, and sparked a heated debate about anti-Semitism in the German Left in general and in the 68er movement specifically. According to historian Götz Aly, «the German 68ers were wretchedly similar to their parents.» Journalist Micha Brumlik pinpoints «the radical Left rebellion against their parents’ Nazi generation as a contradictory process of identification with them and their hatred of Jews.»
Kraushaar’s research revealed why the Berlin police had failed (or wanted to fail) in their examination of the case. Kraushaar identified Albert Fichter as the man who placed the bomb. Fichter was given the explosives – and this detail warrants further discussion – by an agent provocateur from the Berlin intelligence service who had long had the «Tupamaros West Berlin» under surveillance. Allegedly the bomb was tinkered with so it would fail to explode. Tilman Fichter, Albert’s brother, at the time chairman of the SDS (German socialist student group), explains in an interview why it was and still is taboo to talk about anti-Semitism on the Left.»

http://www.signandsight.com/features/434.html


UPDATE

 

In keeping with the company they keep Kia Ora Gaza seem to have deleted my comment, here is a screen capture;

 

R*** M*** W*** defends himself

Unlike Islamofascists, Nazis or Communists I am nothing if not a democrat who believes in free speech (so long as it doesn’t incite violence). W*** has posted in my comments section so I’ll post them in full (with the exception of the address he’s dug up for me).

W***;

«you have one thing wrong..i live in munich now….and for the hate mails i got…..they are kinda funny and nasty :)…..iam a liberal and supported israel for as long i can remember
and calling me a nazi….thats a kinda low blow….and funny for me
pamela geller just watch here on tv…..she is nothing than pure hate»

«i think i hit a nerve with you…. you tried to manipulate my message….but what do I expect ….I didn’t say I despise here because she is Jewish
I despise her because she is hateful and if anybody disagrees with her is called anti Jewish and a Nazi , I have news for you millions in the USA hate that women like I said not because she is Jewish because she is a hate monger….and she plays the Jewish card… at first I didn’t even know she was Jewish( did you ever watch her on TV you should get that in Russia) she alone brings that up she alone spreads the hate against Muslims and anybody who speaks out against her…and it looks like you are not better than her…..and if people read your message what you left me there is no surprise there are so many anti Semites out there look in the mirror you are no better and don’t judge people who you don’t know …I said in my e-mail that millions of people NOT ONLY Jews died in the hand of the nazis and
it is the hate who killed that people and she is spreading the same message the nazis used…DO NOT TRY TO MAKE UP EXCUSES FOR THIS WOMEN…..if you watch the old movies from that time with Josef goppels it almost the same..no it is the same its pure hate….
if you read the e-mail what I got from her you would be ashamed defending her …..you hide behind some web site and try to judge everybody who disagree with you and you try to bully me too….there is a FBI office not far from my place in Munich and I will talk to them tomorrow….you can call me anything you like I know what I am and what MY beliefs are…..
maybe i should put your messages up on some of the right wing sites IN THE USA AND RUSSIA ….but i wont i am better then you hate mongers ……..something is wrong with people like her and you….it looks like every fiber in your bodies are filled with hate AGAINST PEOPLE WHO STAND UP AND SPEAK OUT AGAINST THIS HATE
AND IF YOU DONT KNOW (SHE KNOWS) THERE WHERE 2 MOSQUES IN THE 2 WORLD TRADE CENTER TOWERS…..you call me a nazi ….just look in the mirror»

«ONE THING I FORGOT……I GOT SOMESOME GREAT E-MAILS …..I DONT KNOW WHAT KIND OF WEBSITE YOU ARE RUNNING BUT SOME OF THEM WHERE SO DISGUSTING AND I THINK THE FBI WILL BE VERY INTERESTED IN THEM….I NEVER EVER BEEN CALLED A FAGGOT AND SOME THREATENT TO HURT ME……IF SOMETHING HAPPEND TO ME WE WILL MAKE SURE YOU MADE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS ..
I DONT CARE IF YOU HAVE MY E-MAIL UP….BUT IF YOU DONT REMOVE MY NAME I WILL SUE YOU FOR EVERY CENT YOU GOT….AND TRUST ME CYBER HARRASMENT IS ILLEGAL AND THE FBI WILL GO AFTER YOU…..SPECIAL AFTER THAT 18 YEAR OLD KID WHO KILLED HIMSELF LAST WEEK
HE WAS GAY TOO…..AND GOT BULLIED …..AND THIS HARRASMENT COMES FROM YOUR WEB SITE
THE COURT WILL JUST LOVE THIS»

To which I replied

Okay so let me get this straight? Your three points are;

1. You didn’t know she was Jewish, but this is disproved by your very comment «that good jews got killed from then nazis and cunts like you got away» in other words «bad Jews.»

2. You say I manipulated your words but I printed your hate mail in full and have allowed you full right of reply.

3. You think I am anymore repsonsible for the hate mail generated by this post than Pamela Geller is for your hatemail? Its hilarious that you think you would have a legitimate case with the FBI when this all started with your own anti-Jewish cyber harassment. Its called Irony.

When you go around telling Jews you disagree with to go to concentration camps, and you happen to be German to boot, do you really think people are going to take your arguments or protests that you’re not a bigot seriously?

 

Update, You can read the dialogue between myself and W*** in the comments section. It looks like he’s truly embarrased at being caught out. I have issued a challenge to him. If he posts a letter of apology on my blog comments section I will forgive him. I don’t actually think he’s a bad guy I think he might have just made a rash decision which we all do sometimes. Who of us isn’t guilty of this sometimes? As a show of my forgiveness I will let him do a regular article here on Gay or German issues here if he wants.  I think he’s gotten a taste of his own medicine. What do you say? To show I’m serious I’m going to cover up his full name as I don’t want him receiving anymore hatemail from anyone.

Young Jewish American ignorance

I talk to young American Jews a lot about Israel and I’m often surprised just how they step on eggshells not to offend Muslims or anyone else in their support of Israel. They often cannot simply say «I support Israel» without qualifying it with «but…I like Muslims too» or «but I support Palestinians too.» There are a number of issues that I find annoying about this point of view. First I don’t understand why Israel always needs to be thought of together with (non-Israeli) Arabs automatically in every conversation. When I talk about Turkey I don’t qualify my support for the Kurds in the next sentence etc. I don’t say «I like the USA, but I also like Mexico». They aren’t mutually exclusive and my belief is that the media has made a generation of Jewish and non-Jewish people feel that they are. That you can’t be pro-Israel without disliking Arabs or Palestinians or even having no view at all about them. The second point is more philosophical. American Jews are amongst the most liberal people I’ve come across but often their viewpoints are not well thought out, they are assumptions. Its not that I truly believe all Muslims are bad, I do think Islam needs to heavily reform a belief I share with many liberal Muslims, but I don’t think Muslims are born evil or anything. I do like to play the Devil’s advocate though in order to force people and especially young American Jews to actually think about what they are saying; to challenge their beliefs. A case in point is this debate I had recently with a young American Jewish woman (she’s in italics, it was on a chat program so excuse the spelling and grammar, if you’re a follower of my blog you’ll know my grammar sucks anyway);

ur also an israeli activist

are you an activist?

activist how so?

pro israel?

i love israel but

but?

i love all religions

if you say you like italy do you say you love all religions? why do you feel the need to say that in relation to israel?

i just think religion causes alot of problems in this world  but i love israel i lived there for two years
and im jewish and im proud to be but im not religious

do you love sharia law? eg women not being allowed to leave the house without a male escort, women having 1/4 the say of men in islamic courts?

no i dont but i also see problems in the jewish religion….i dont agree with all orthodox ideals

such as?

think every religion has its pluses and minuses (I) dont agree with preventing children from watching the news and certain tv shows

are you actually comparing kids watching tv to women having 1 quarter the say of men in islamic courts? you really think theyre equal problems?

not comparing two diff topics u asked me what i dont agree in the orthodox side of things

then why did you feel the need to defend islamic minuses by alluding to jewish ones?

i dont agree in wearing wigs

so do you agree with muslim women wearing headscarfs?


im not touching on islamic views right now at all

no i don’t

but then why say you love all religions in relation to israel? what are the pluses of islam? 

it’s not in relation to Israel i was born jewish

youre exact answer was «you love israel but you love all religions» as if loving israel meant you couldnt like other religions

so this is my religion what i am saying is therera re ppluses and minuses to all religions

ok so what are the pluses of islam?

i truthfully dont know enough about that religion to give an educated response

so how can you be certain all religions have pluses as youve stated twice?

because no one thing on earth is solely bad

but you cant name any good things about islam?

are u trying to imply that all islams are bad

no im not the one answering im only going by your answers, its illogical to assume just on the basis of your own beliefs or hopes its like saying all political parties or ideologies have pluses and minuses

eg the nazis had pluses

??

because that would be a very ignorant statement

most people would admit their minuses so outweighed any pluses to make them unimportant, right?
if you cant give me any solid reasons specifically in the case of islam or examples then isnt that an ignorant statement too? especially given you admitted you dont really know earlier? «i truthfully dont know enough about that religion to give an educated response» just like you wouldnt assume all political parties are good and bad it follows you shouldnt assume the same about religions
logically,right? im really just pointing out the philosophical flaw in your basic premise

-At this point she logged off without saying goodbye.

Exposing Anti-Semites; Naming and Shaming (works).

I was reading Pamela Geller’s blog about the hypocrisy of the New York Post on the Ground Zero Mosque affair in which she posted recent threats made to her by email. It is interesting how a quick facebook search can reveal the true identities of these bigots and anti-semites who post anonymously;

For instance;

timecycle@cox.net wrote;

«Subject: Zionist Pigs May you acquia terminal disease and die a long, slow, painful
death—you Zionist pig!
Sincerely,
666″

It turns out he is Haydon Young

Mark94131@aol.com writes;

«that good jews got killed from then nazis and cunts like you got away….auschwitz would been a good p;ace for you….your hate would fit right in there»

Mark is R** W** a pastry chef in San Francisco who is German (a real Nazi).

UPDATE

W*** got back to me and wrote this;

«very funny….you know my partner for 25 years is jewish…that women is evil as they come…I am very happy I confronted this hateful women she is pure evil….she is a bully and thinks she can say anything she wants….. but I am not afraid of her ….she attacked me after I confronted (e-mailed) her after I watched her on TV …it made me sick ..she is out to stir up hate pure hate did you ever watch her????? you don’t know what hateful e-mail I got from her….I don’t give a dam what people are but I dislike people like her and because she is Jewish and I said something about her you a labeled me right away as anti Semite
she preaches hate and is a racists a bigot ….ever watched her how hateful she is against Obama?????

she gives the Jewish people a bad name…like I said my partner for 25 years is Jewish and he sure knows am not a bigot or anti Semite….shame on you to support people like her …why don’t you put up her hateful speeches….
you don’t know nothing about me….or my background. yes I am German and very proud of it…and I want to tell you one more thing……my grandfather was in Dachau KZ after he confronted the major of my hometown in April of 45…..you call me a anti Semite but what is she?????????
if you watch her and her hate it turns people off ….we live in the year 2010 and we still have hate mongers around like her ..I bet she watched Josef goppels she is no better than he was….
and I bet you my life she turns people into anti Semites
check this out that what she is!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stella_K%C3%BCbler«

To which I replied;

«I don’t give a dam what people are but I dislike people like her and because she is Jewish and I said something about her you a labeled me right away as anti Semite»

You told her you wished she was in a concentration camp. In other words people you deem to be bad Jews belong in concentration camps. There’s no getting around it with «some of my best friends are Jewish» excuses. Would you tell a Cambodian person you disagreed with they belong in a Pol Pot deathcamp?

«she gives the Jewish people a bad name» So all Jews deserve collective guilt for the supposed sins of one? Would you apply the same rule to other groups?

«you call me a anti Semite» Actually you did a pretty good job yourself by telling a Jewish woman to go to Auschwitz.